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Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
84
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Posted - 2014.01.07 09:33:00 -
[1] - Quote
A fellow LogiBro here, I want to ask everyone a series of questions:
1.) Have you actually played in a logistics suit?
2.) Do you know how much of a SP and ISK sink it is? Not to mention the time going into it and the problems faced on the daily basis?
3.) Are you asking to nerf Logistics because of people using them as an assault suit?
If you had answered no to #1:
Before asking to nerf the suit, play in the suit. You will see that yea we have a good amount of PG/CPU. I use mine to equip what a LogiBro needs to keep the troops alive. Here's a little hint as of how Logi Assaults are made, they do not put anything in their equipment slots besides nano hives. You should also notice that we do not get a sidearm with the exception of Amarr. This means if we get caught reloading or without ammunition, we are good as dead. So before asking to nerf it, try it out. I know a good amount of people asking for nerfs without trying it out themselves.
If you answered no or I do not know to #2:
Again from a LogiBro, let me run you some numbers real quick. Dropsuit SP @ 2,760,960 just to get proto. Dropsuit Upgrades @ 9,557,640 just to max out total health, max out CPU/PG AND getting all the equipment needed to keep troops alive and in the fight. So just the two by themselves cost a player 12,318,600 SP just to run a Proto LogiBro without counting weaponry. The ISK cost is worse, Just to run Proto on a Logistics suit, the minimum cost is about 150k ISK. SO 12 million SP and 150K ISK just to run proto LogiBro.
The time going into it can be a stressful one.
(a logi is not there to do damage it is there to repair teammates that have been damaged.)
Majority of the time when we see troops calling out for us, we try not to rush there immediately. Why? we need to make sure the area is clear before reviving you, otherwise all we would hear from you is 'stop reviving me because they will just kill me again!' And wouldn't you know it I'm dead now too out 150k ISK. There are other time when the Logi is laying down cover fire for you after reviving you. If we are not meant to do damage then all we are is a big yellow banana target and that also means we cannot clear the area to revive you. We also cannot carry everything needed, so there are times a Logi will revive you but wont repair you because they could be scanning or setting up remote explosives on the objectives.
If you answered yes to #3:
It is not all black and white. What? Logis cannot do damage and your suit is supposed to be superior to the Logistics Class? That question is comparable to myself saying 'that guy killed me. must be hacking or lag'. If we were not meant to do damage then we are not meant to kill meaning we are not helping at a maximum rate. Healing and supplying the team is 60%, where's the other 40? The other 40 goes to killing the enemy and having your back taking on groups of them. Also keep in mind that if we need to clear an area before reviving you, we need to do damage to ensure that the area is cleared.
TL:DR? Try playing as a LogiBro. Invest time, stress, a lot of SP and ISK to run a LogiBro. Not everything is back and white, a logi needs to kill to ensure the area is clear. One the area is clear, they can revive anyone down with ease. Think outside the box rather than staying stuck in the box.
Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet.
Tends to flip the table when seeing the words:
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
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Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 09:48:00 -
[2] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:deepfried salad gilliam wrote:it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)...
Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s).
5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update
Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults.
On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing.
On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another.
Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet.
Tends to flip the table when seeing the words:
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
|
Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 10:41:00 -
[3] - Quote
You also have to keep in mind that moving the H/L slots will make little difference in the types of suits (STD->ADV->PRO). Amarr just obtained their 4th low slot since proto and advance were the same thing minus the sidearm.
Failing to see how a speed boost would help.
I'm agreeing with the Gallente Logi bonus as an overall Logi bonus. Only problem is who is going to rep the logi?
Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet.
Tends to flip the table when seeing the words:
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
|
Dj grammer
Red Star.
EoN.
84
|
Posted - 2014.01.07 10:42:00 -
[4] - Quote
Korvin Lomont wrote:Dj grammer wrote:Korvin Lomont wrote:deepfried salad gilliam wrote:it will most likely be a change in pg/cpu and bonus the 5hps (at lvl5) is op Well the 5HP/sec is a nice addition but far from being OP it is roughly a advanced armor repper on max skills. And Assaults get roughly 5HP/sec repair for their shields as well. What makes the logi OP is the CPU/PG bonus he gets. One way of solving this is to give all Logis the current gallente Racial Bonus an make any equipment base skill reduce CPU/PG by 5% per level. After that bring down CPU/PG of Logis to the same level of Assaults and now Logis can't really outfit Assaults anymore... From there you can move one H/L from Logis to assaults but to compensate speed and stamina of Logis should be increased at least to Assault's level (maybe slightly faster)... Assaults gets about 20 or more HP/s on shields (Minmatar being the only Assault with passive armor repair @ 1Hp/s). 5 HP/s, wow we are self repairing at the speed of light right? Even at 5 HP/s, it takes FOREVER getting all of the lost armor back. Especially in this update Hey you give the Logis the Gallente bonus as a whole, it will be enough to kill some of the people using the Logis as Assaults. On the CPU/PG, the answer would have to be no. Even with the Gallente Bonus, you will still need all the space you can get on the suit just to keep yourself alive while repairing and reviving others. The Assaults only have the one equipment slot meant for themselves and no one else. Also keep in mind that some of the assault bonuses are reflected based on what type of weapon you use and etc. An example of the CPU/PG nerf, Caldari Logistics. This punished the true LogiBros using that suit badly due to QQing. On the High Low slots, again no. All you essentially did is move the problem not fixing the problem. The High Low slots are not the problem to begin with anyways. Also it will somewhat kill how the drop suits differ from one another. Ok I have played a gall Logi for more than one year right now, and the current Logi concept is a stupid at least to my understanding of a logi. I personally dont't see the 5HP/sec as OP thing (as I mentioned above) but the point is lots of Logi suits currently run nothing apart from damage mods and armor plates this seem to be a problem for some assault players. While I don't think this is such a big problem I can see there IS a problem. I have played around with some possible solutions but it comes everytime down to two major aspects the amount of slots and the high CPU/PG rating both can easily be abused. Now throw in that the assault is just a basic suit with a skill bonus I can understand why some assault players are upset. So with y suggestions you will get a HUGE bonus to equipment fitting (25% per Logi skill and another 25% per equipment skill) for your choosen equipment, so you can still fit lots of equipment but you won't be able to outtank an assault player in the same way it is now possible. When Logis get a speed boost they should do fine even with a H/L slot less. In fact that would open even more possibilities for logis in my opinion.
In the end, it comes down to having people play test everything
Open Beta (12/13/2012) to a 1-year Vet.
Tends to flip the table when seeing the words:
YOU HAVE BEEN SCANNED
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